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Here is a summary I prepared of Stephan Kinsella’s April 27, 2014 non-debate with Jan Helfeld on minarchism vs. anarchy.

I have preserved the foul language that Kinsella used, to get a full picture of his anger issues and irrationality about a topic that demands rationality.

10m – Ad hominem by Kinsella, refers to “God damn Randian state”
14m – Helfeld Disputes that state is a criminal organization
– Mentions necessity of gang warfare under anarchism – Kinsella gets annoyed
15m – Kinsella’s rude, saying “you’re reading something?”
17m – Domestic and foreign criminals checked by power of state
– Kinsella interrupts again, Jan gets mad, Kinsella says “Jesus Christ”
18m – Gang warfare in every city
19m – Town receiving an extortion letter
21m – Disagreements over punishments
– Kinsella interrupts again, saying his time should be up
23m – Helfeld says he doesn’t want to follow rules, like most anarchists
– Feuds and vendettas
– What happens if you can’t trust contracts will be enforced?
24m – Kinsella interrupts again
26m – Gets annoyed again when asks Helfeld two questions, does the state commit aggression, and is it justified?
27m – Kinsella said “Fuck the format”
– No aggression when people agree to have a govt to protect their rights
29m – Helfeld said everyone is born into a system, with govt or not – says implied contract
30m – Helfeld claims he’s not a statist, Kinsella says he is
33m – Slavery in constitution
34m – Kinsella says “fuck the judge” to Helfeld saying don’t tell the judge he’s against govt
35m – U.S. showed benefit of limited govt
36m – Kinsella says this is ridiculous, re: each asking 12 questions of each other
37m – Says as an anarchist, that’s “bullshit”
38m – Kinsella says it’s irrelevant what Jan thinks now, saying “be a big boy”
– Says he can’t be civilized with this guy
– Saying interrupting is less than taxing — saying Jan is a statist
39m – Jan called Molyneux mollynukes
40m – Kinsella arrogant in responding to no, that it’s not ok to initiate force
41m – Asked is it ok to take water from someone by force — Kinsella asked, “what’s the relevance of the question?”
– Said it’s a “bullshit question”
42m – Kinsella says he doesn’t know what to do
43m – Jan says that he doesn’t realize that under duress, he can violate rights
44m – Ad hominem calling Jan “a washed up lawyer”
– Called him a loser, saying he doesn’t even pronounce ad hominem properly
45m – Called him a “craven coward defender of the state,” saying he’s raising certain issues in order to justify the state
47m – Helfeld said Larken Rose said, in a debate, that he would die in that situation [drowning and if someone in a boat next to him wouldn’t let him on]
– Said he might have been one of the few who would, whereas most who say they would do so, wouldn’t
48m – Kinsella said “Fuck no,” re: Jan’s behaviour
49m – Says “it’s disagreeable to tax by you motherfuckers,” to Jan
– Said “you are nothing”, being a statist
50m – Kinsella said to the moderator before that he had previously been a minarchist and a Randian
51m – Kinsella said to Jan, “you better think it through, motherfucker”
52m – Jan laughing
53m – Jan says there are two cases — if dispute resolution groups have nukes, or not, asking what would you do if Putin has nukes
57m – Jan says he would violate rights to save his life if he had to hang onto a boat
1h5m – Kinsella says non-aggression principle should be a model for laws in a society
– Says he doesn’t know if he would steal to survive
1h7m – Kinsella said statist libertarians are old wave, and he can’t wait for them to die out
1h8m – Kinsella called the Founding Fathers racist, bigoted slave owners
1h15m – Funny echo on Jan’s side
1h16m – Kinsella says he’s not opposed to govt, he’s opposed to the state
1h19m – Will criminal gangs attack others they perceive as weaker
1h21m – Kinsella says he no longer has any interest in talking
1h23m – Kinsella said “you’re idiots”
1h24m – Helfeld said this system is better than gang warfare
1h26m – Helfeld says he doesn’t support taxation for redistribution of wealth, and Kinsella says “they take my taxes every April 16th, motherfucker”
1h27m – Kinsella said he’s probably paid more in taxes in one year than Helfeld has in his entire life
1h28m – Kinsella calls Jan a fake, fraud and liar
1h30m – Kinsella said Jan is welcome to his opinion and “to shut the fuck up for a second”
1h31m – Called Jan his enemy
1h33m – Called Jan a “washed up loser”
– Said “Fuck off, bye”

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My finding of this statute allowing for recovery of the payment of property taxes in Washington State under protest of duress is in response to a commenter laughably claiming that purported anarchist, Lew Rockwell, seeking a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status for the Mises Institute wasn’t a voluntary agreement.

Here’s what a real anarchist would do if he/she chooses to pay taxes, and that’s pay under protest of duress, as I suggested in my response to his comment.

From the Washington State Department of Revenue’s document, Paying your Property Taxes Under Protest:

To preserve your right to seek a court ordered refund, you must submit a separate written statement to the county treasurer at the time you pay the tax stating (1) you are paying the tax or a portion of the tax under protest and (2) all of the reasons why you believe the tax paid is unlawful or excessive.

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From this February 23, 2010 Daily Bell interview with Lew Rockwell, he said:

Daily Bell: Is it reasonable to believe that the state will ever wither away or does reality instruct us that the best that can be done is to limit its power?

Rockwell: To me, that’s like asking if we can imagine a society without robberies and murders. Maybe it won’t ever happen, but we must have the ideal in mind or else we’ll never get closer to it. Without the ideal, progress stops. To some extent, then, whether reality will finally ever conform is not the critical question. What counts is that what we imagine can and should exist. I like to imagine a society without legally sanctioned aggression against person and property.

For more on Lew Rockwell, see my article, 10 questions for Lew Rockwell.

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Andrew NapolitanoFrom his February 18, 2014 appearance on the Tom Woods Show, Judge Andrew Napolitano said (at 16:04):

Even when Lew Rockwell and you, and I, are dining together, I am the most libertarian person in the room.

and:

The long answer is that I am the quintessential Rothbardian. I believe that you have the right to avoid the state, to avoid the government, the absolute moral right to do so.

For more on Judge Napolitano, see my article, Dr. Stan Monteith on Judge Andrew Napolitano: “Is he another plant in the conservative movement?”, in response to Judge Napolitano’s statement that the first American to shoot down a drone flying over their house where their kids are playing would be an “American hero.”

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Nathan FraserOn the January 20, 2013 episode of Exposing Faux Capitalism, I interviewed anarchist Nathan Fraser of livefree.fm.

We discussed the lack of consent to be governed through voting, a driver’s license or Social Security Number, the conflict of interest of the government in civil and criminal cases, and other issues.

I was very impressed with Nathan’s presentation, including his response that he wasn’t against all government services — he was only against the provision of them by force. He also challenged the notion that silence equals consent, saying that silence during rape doesn’t equal consent.

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